Sometimes you just might be surprised on what your heart will tell you and what may or may not be false. They are not. Catholics must keep their heads on straight and not wander from Church teachings, but praying at an apparition site is not wrong. Do you still believe as the authorities thought they did, that Joans voices were from the devil? I enjoy visiting holylove and believe that it is for all faiths just as Mary has appeared in Cairo. The CCC gave me my talking points. This is a great test of humility. "Make this known.". It may be coming from an unhinged or manipulative person, or it may be coming from the demons, or it may be coming from some combination of them both. God the Father is spirit and God the Holy Spirit is spirit. Until and unless that happens, people are endangering their souls by going there. What would the devil get out of the deal? A lot of Saints also give teachings. philosophy that goes something like this, That which is obvious admits no debate. The words were cleverly chosen. (Someone above has a way you can bring the document up on the internet.Scroll up and find it.)) http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2009/11/obedience-to-catholic-church-judging.html. Here is one of St. Thomass conclusions vis-a-vis obedience: Nevertheless man is bound to obey his fellow-man in things that have to be done externally by means of the body: and yet, since by nature all men are equal, he is not bound to obey another man in matters touching the nature of the body, for instance in those relating to the support of his body or the begetting of his children. Dont be surprised if you hear that someday, will you? This idea exalts claimed private revelation as if it were necessary not only for the plan of God, but for the Return of Jesus. Please read the article agaian for the explanation. ), I think one should be hesitant in going there. Instead they gave the Medjugorie question to an independent committee. You choose to twist and squirm and find excuses so theres no point in continuing this with you. Remember, BISHOPS CONDEMNED Joan of Arc. By the time I stopped at the latter place, I was much more informed and immediately felt the place was creepy for many reasons. You will find the Church where the true Faith is. Give me one example of circular logic. The question now is how will the many followers respond to the Bishops decree? Eventually Rome took his authority away and a special commission was given the task of evaluating Medjugorie. It is hard for me to grasp the influence of the Ohio diocese attempt to stop pilgrims from going to Holy love, which is a Ecumenical Ministrry for all people and all nations. The bishops who wrote those letters are not approving authorities for HLM. I guess we had different math teachers 1 human heart = 4 chambers. Stop judging it and mocking it with your prideful comments. I am not accusing Bishop Lennon of anything. HLM says it isnt a Catholic organization. He and a partner formed a corporation and bought hundreds of acres of land through donations. The one place I can go today to be instructed in the depth of the Catholic Faith is Holy Love Ministries. I have all the right in the world to go. The Church is where the full Catholic Faith is being taught and upheld. Sister Adele cautioned the Bishop that he would be responsible for the souls lost due to the lack of proper religious instruction. But she obeyed the Bishops command. Only one person of the Trinity has a human nature, which gives Him an actual heart. At Holy Love Ministries the lay faithful have an opportunity to learn the depth mystical theology of Catholicism in all its rich and pristine clarity,as well as in its orthodox consistency, but Bishop Lennon expects obedience simple because he is the bishop. daily Mass, rosary, weekly adoration and love of all is so frowned apron. If she remarried in the Church, then she would have had to have the necessary paperwork done, simple as that! No canon lawyer worth their salt would disclose that to anyone who did not have a need to know. It is a definitive judgement that HLM is a false apparition. Unless Pope Benedict XVI overrules Bishop Lennon on the matter of Holy Love, we are bound to obedience. 8/9/93 from Our Lady: There is no peace, save in the grace of My Heart. This is contrary to our faith. If we do not cooperate with Gods Will through free will choice, we sin. By the logic used here, since Joan was disobedient for continuing to claim her apparitions were real, and so she was in the wrong for listening to demonic voices. I did not know about the divorce and remarriage. Sweeney insisted that the Virgin Marys messages demanded that she be given a new title, one recognized by the Catholic Church, that of Our Lady Protectress of the Faith. The Cleveland Catholic Diocese turned down this request. Dear Tess: Bishop Lennon is under investigation? We see in others what we are ourselves. "Heavenly Father, today, I surrender to You my heart. It is your biased opinion reading the messages through the distorted lens of your own biased opinion that concludes what you do. Thank you, Liz. Lets give everybody another dollop of your skewered thinking. May God be with you; Ive said all I have to say. Advertise on Catholic Exchange 9/3/93 from Our Lady: My little messenger, what I most wish to convey to you is how much Jesus You assume you are free to mock that which many others treasure without dealing with the hurt and indignation you engender. Im officially done (I think) discussing this with 3221. Sure, the Church can be overly hard on mystics at times, but the authentic ones OBEYED anyway. The writings of HLM are totally reasonable. These very same men are condemning God for trying to lead His children to safety in a world that is fast becoming hell on earth. Were such seers themselves duped, and heard or saw messages that were really not from God? I just read yesterday about HLMs description of the remnant.. Now, tell me, was the great Mother Teresa disobedient? One also needs to consider we can ot believe all the higher ups in the church anymorethe devil has infiltrated it. In Marinos case, I later learned that he got involved in a worldwide movement built around Medjugorje and tried to use that connection to make Kettle River a major Marian shrine. @3221, you have set yourself up to be the interpreter and arbitrator of Lennons Decree. Catherine of Sienna told them all on 11/18/09 (after Bishop Lennons Decree): Do not be fooled to believe you are not allowed to come., 3221 believes that Jesus Himself said on 11/13/09 (after Bishop Lennons Decree): My brothers and sisters, you must not place OFFICE and AUTHORITY and TITLE above the TRUTH., 3221 believes that St. The language the bishop used is precisely the language of a condemnation. It is a gossip piece such as you read about movie stars. Now compare that Jesus with the Jesus from Holy Love.. As soon as I started reading the web site, I had , deep in my soul, the feeling I get when I know something is false. It is clear form reading the comments here that most of those who are commenting are very mixed.up. 3221 believes that St. Yet, if everyone had awaited an official pronouncement from the Church, the 60,000 people that witnessed the Miracle of the Sun in Fatima, Portugal would have stayed home that day. This latter is considered a false obedience. What do you find erroneous? True obedience is to the Faith. Nor would there have been the initial miracles to report at Lourdes, France if people did not flock to the miraculous spring. These would be the criteria of a true discernment and judgment.. O Holy Night by Josh Groban: it is NOT CONDEMNATION,NOR DOES IT FORBID persons to go there. People have been going to thisplace since the early 1990s, drawn by founder Maureen Sweeney-Kyles claim that Jesus and the Blessed Virgin Mary and a host of saints are appearing to her with messages. The door to the soul IS free will because it is through our free choice (free will) that we CHOOSE either God or sin. "No. She has a B.A. I dont see the point you might be trying to make by posing that question. Our prayers, in Holy Love and united, have changed the course of this nation and eventually the world, which was heading towards a damnation. And I agree that the Church, Christ Himself, never changes. It is for this reason that Our Lady says free will keeps us from holiness. It is like the fruit put into the basket of love and humility. As the webmaster of 5 different Catholic websitesone being the Mystics of the Church website I have spent *many* years studying the lives of the mystics/saints/visionaries in the Catholic church, so I believe I can speak to this issue with at least some background and experience in what the Church teaches concerning obedience to the legitimate Church authority. Better to follow Our Lady of Fatima and other proven apparitions-can never go wrong there. He does not have the canonical liberty to condemn it because he would have to show specific errors in teachings there. ( I know you are anxious to find some error in what I am saying, but get a hold of yourself. You see, you just do not get it. Cover me with the Precious Blood of Your Divine Son. For Catholics, this should be the end of the story. There was an ultimatum with himembrace Holy Love or you are showing that you dont love/trust him or God. Thirdly, there are many bishops who not only approve, but are actually involved, in the promulgation of HLM. But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth (John 16:12-13). Bishop Lennon did not use the word condemn because he could not. Sadly, some cannot, or will not, recognize the Shepherds voice (cf John 10:14). By traditional theology, that very statement constitutes the condemnation spoken of by Mrs. Armstrong in her letter. Ignatius of Loyola. If we cannot rely on ancient doctrines to discern what is true or false in apparitions, (and we cannot) then we have to discern the best we can in other ways. Copyright 2023 Catholic Exchange. Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them. Good points all. You have every right even a duty to suggest caution, as you did in your article. You neglect to understandand you really should have understood from your correspondence with those whom you consultedthat danger to the true Faith lurks in a lack of authentic Catholic doctrine,or in Scriptural misinterpretation, not in externals such as rosaries, statues, or vocal prayers. Everything I knew about him seemed to be the real deal. On the surface, everything about the site appears to be Catholic, but it is not. Medjugorie is now being examined by the Vatican, well after the local bishop (Bishop Zanic) stated that there was nothing supernatural occuring. The messages also portray the Father as saying that He (the Father) is the Holy Spirit: "I am that True Holy Spirit" (God The Father, March 5, 2010). 3221, back up and read what you just wrote. Is Bishop Lennon not under investigation? The remnant are not those necessarily following HLM, but rather those who follow the truths of the Catholic Church with a humble openness to God.If one is doing this, one does not necessarily need HLM to tell them what one already knows. I fear that many, enthralled by what they believe to be a miraculous site, will disregard the Church. Interesting enough, it was also a no show for Marino. At that point, Holy Love Ministries took an ecumenical approach. Find me one theological errorjust one. It is employed when the competent ecclesiastical authority decides a claim to be constat de non supernaturalitate (does not consist of the supernatural). Clothe me in Your Divine Will. I have an interesting story about another alleged apparition site: Conyers, GA I went to Conyers quite innocently; more or less a tag-a-long with my wife and her sister and mom. It is clear to me that you are sincerely searching for the truth, and that you in no way harbor contemptuous mockery in your heart toward those who have found spiritual strength and guidance at Holy Love Ministries. 212 1. Read the Decree here: http://www.dioceseofcleveland.org/news/2009/Holy%20Love%20-%20Decree%20in%20English%20-%202009-11-11.pdf. HLM is NOT at all in error.The mystical theology pouring out of HLM is an exquisite explanation and delineation of the deepest mystical theology of the Catholic Church. If you are on this planet and catholic, you know these requirements do not fit many, many priests, catholic lay people. His judgement is NOT the definitive Voice of the Church. Walk in love by choosing to speak life and build others up with your words. They do not have confessions or Mass on the property, as requested by the Bishop. It is fair to say, going through the motions to achieve the end so much desired on an official level, was the order of the day., None of this alters the Truth of this Mission. And, that would be the sin of idolatry. I have come to ask you some questions to help you to think like citizens of Heaven, not of earth..My brothers and sisters, you must not place OFFICE and AUTHORITY and TITLE above the TRUTH., I, your Eternal Father, call you here. Heres a good article from the the Catholic Herald in the U.K. about Marian apparitions and disobedience. The Bishops subjects (you and me) are bound to obey him within the sphere of his authority. Are you actually claiming that the Bishop of his diocese has no authority to declare whether a place is operating within the Catholic faith? There the Church acted definitely and swiftly because it was clear it was satanic. I just dont see the Blessed Mother doing this. Please do not respond with the same old response about Lennons decree. He pledged to obey a church directive to dissolve the corporation. Read: sometimes it could do grave harm to someones reputation. To go to Holy love, see a beautiful statute and maybe be at peace on what to me, is very much holy ground, doesnt mean your believing in Maureen and no longer the church at all. I must disagree with Thomas in this case as souls are at least equally at stake should people follow a false apparition. People have been going to this shrine since the early 1990s, drawn by founder Sweeney-Kyles claim that Jesus and the Blessed Virgin Mary and a host of saints are appearing to her with messages. This is a great test of humility. James McManus had some words about this phenomenon amongst traditionalists. May I suggest him to all interested parties? Furthermore, The Holy Spirit reigns within these visionaries. Too often, after apparitions are condemned people feel betrayed and give up on God and the Church. 3. Many of them do go and believe in Holy Love apparitions. The Bishop of Cleveland says otherwise by the fact of his document and he claims to have the backing of the Holy See. Never was a true visionary told he or she did not have to obey Catholic authority. The judgments of peoples that are a constant in comments on this site again prove just how lacking in the true Faith the commentators on this site are. (cf CCC 1464, 1468, 736, 1832, Galatians 5:22-23 Vulgate). This is simply how I personally would react to your hypothetical question of whether or not Id obey a Bishop who told me that the Blessed Sacrament is only truly our Lord during the Mass, and outside the Mass it can be disregarded. I figured that someone who made such a claim above (Mr/Ms 3221) would know! This morning I was reading about the first Marian apparition in the U.S. approved by the Church. I am curious to know where Bishop Lennon stands on defending our treasured Faith. I did not save all the impassioned emails I received three years ago, but I did find similar comments on a site discussing Holy Love. Then, all their gains are lost. So he abandoned the responsibilities of his vocation, fatherhood, and took on these other responsibilities. I am a clear writermuch more so than many on this blog who have taken it upon themselves to malign something they give clear evidence of being afraid of and need to bash. If the apparatitions turn out to be true then you will have ignored them for a false reason, which does not seem to bother you. We are not God. Now youre obfuscating the issue. Her messages are all of holy love, and doing gods will. Why such a fervor over something no one is asking you to believe? Does he have serious concerns about the personal profits he garnered from the sale of those churches? The Mother of God would have her true sons and daughters know the difference too. They had them at a couple of their locations.). Wouldnt you think these are the blessed fruits of a true apparition? That is why we have the Church, so that we dont get led astray by what looks good on the surface. This has all been said. Jesus told us not t judge, did He not? My story is quite unusual, perhaps. It is offensive. So much so that when one such person DOES fulfill his office, the immediate outcry arises from a cancer that lays below. How did you read his statement? It has never been the Churchs position that free will keeps a soul from holiness. Natural disasters. You increase in holiness when your relationship with Me is such that you seek only to please Me. The bishops office of the diocese of Cleveland cautions anyone considering donations to the center. In the past ten years I have been there twice. Jesus or Mary? It is through our free will that we either choose to cooperate with the grace that God offers us, or we choose to reject His grace. Medjugorie followers did the same with Bishop Zanic there. Please ponder these words of Jesus to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque after she explained to Him that she did not do something that He had asked of her because her Superior forbid it: Therefore not only do I desire that you should do what your Superior commands, but also that you should do nothing of all that I order without their consent. I just read the decree and it is not a canonically official condemnation as you so want to think. Holy Love: You will have wars and insurrections You were created through My Divine Will to know Me and to love Me above all things. Condemnation of what is said at HLM cannot happen canonically, for, in order for that to happen, Holy Love Ministries would have to manifest heresy. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! @LizEst:disqus, if you would like, please feel free to E-mail me privately. Bishops DO OWE the faithful an explanation for what they say and do. His vocation was to be a husband and a father and he was neither of those things. You will not deal with specifics of HLM nor will you discuss Aquinas view of obedience to Church authority because you want your own arrogant and distorted view to be accepted by all as the truth without any discussion.. No one is asking you to believe in the messages of HLM. This justifies and verifies the goodness of the place in his mind. who lives about an hour away from me. The final Church proclamation comes as no surprise. No, it does not. I without a doubt have prayed for the gift of discernment which comes from God and is not mans decision or judgement and he has undoubtedly given that gift to me. Thank you for posting this. The Church has spoken and, even if one suspects that Bishop Lennon is wrong, he should be obeyed. However, my experience there (quite unexpected) threw me into 19 years of anxiety, stress, and doubt. In the Mystical Theology of St. John of the Cross (Doctor of Mystical Theology of the Catholic Church) he explains that in mystical union with God, the soul becomes God and God becomes the soul. Those other bishops deserve our correction, for they undermine the authority of their brother bishop, who has spoken definitively. People these days dont know the difference between good and evil anymore. He/She obviously doesnt get the point. (6) Even unjust or improper suspensions are legally binding. The Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, always looks below the surface because all that glitters isnt gold and regardless of how many people visit or how many statues are erected or rosaries said, it does not constitute proof. Holy Love Ministry - Heavenly Messages In 90 Languages - Translation . With me were my husband, four young boys, and three other families who were part of our family prayer group. If only they would speak as forcefully and clearly about the evil of abortion as does Holy Love Ministries. Jesus (and Mary) would NEVER set Himself against His own Church. And youre taking that over and above a Bishop of the Church? This site also has articles by the famous Spanish exorcist Father Fortea.). Why has God waited this long? For now, I can say that the word condemn is an older, more traditional term used in these affairs. Will this make you feel okay about it.? The shrine is on one hundred-plus acres of land, adorned with beautiful statues of Mary, Jesus and many of the saints. Did they suffer from mental illness and imagine it all? Indeed, it is not about what looks good on the surface. We walk by faith, not by sight. There is no self-promotion, pride or profiting. Therefore, stand guard over your hearts and know that the grace of My Heart will see you through every situation. Please stop attempting to cause confusion about this ministry. Does it not seem a bit odd that Jesus would be speaking about what he calls the Angel Chip, the dark chip, that Satan is preparing and in the near future, we all will have inserted under the skin, and Satan will then be able to control our minds by it.

Who Does Nora End Up With Brothers And Sisters, How To Record Deposits In Quickbooks Desktop, Jared Nieman El Paso, Articles H